Vitboy

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Hi all !

I'm planning to buy the WBC2 but i'm a bit confused :

Here's what i don't understand , on the first page we can read :

( NOTE: The Low Voltage output.... is NOT part of the PowerCommander software Map you see on the computer screen. You cannot adjust the low voltage settings on the Software. It can ONLY be changed using a LCD200 .. at this time.. )

And on another thread of this forum we can see people who set target AFR values for the closing loop section (0-80 cells).

As far as i understand the low voltage output does control the closed loop, or do i'm wrong ?


@Ia02 : I'm also planning to get the Bazzaz O2 stabilizer, i'm a 2017+ also and i would really appreciate your feedback on it !
 

ia02

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Hi all !

I'm planning to buy the WBC2 but i'm a bit confused :

Here's what i don't understand , on the first page we can read :

( NOTE: The Low Voltage output.... is NOT part of the PowerCommander software Map you see on the computer screen. You cannot adjust the low voltage settings on the Software. It can ONLY be changed using a LCD200 .. at this time.. )

And on another thread of this forum we can see people who set target AFR values for the closing loop section (0-80 cells).

As far as i understand the low voltage output does control the closed loop, or do i'm wrong ?


@Ia02 : I'm also planning to get the Bazzaz O2 stabilizer, i'm a 2017+ also and i would really appreciate your feedback on it !

I just buttoned up my install today. I used the O2 stabilizer. I DO have a check engine light. I am going to disassemble again and try the stock O2 sensor.

I am also still confused about the target AFR in the closed loop cells. I'd love to hear some input from others on this.
 

Tom

New Member
So the WBC2 has features that are not visible on the uber watered down Power Commander 5 software you use on your laptop. HardRacing used the LCD200 to turn on functions within the WBC2 to enable closed loop tuning. This effectively allows the WBC2 to spoof the AFR values it feeds to the stock ECU. The WBC2 tells the ECU the bike is running lean on the cells you want to make richer, and vise-versa for cells you set to run leaner. This is all done via the wire you are instructed to splice into the stock o2 sensor, from the WBC2.

The best method to run the wire is to actually clip and splice into the pigtail on the factory o2 sensor. This allows you to simply replace the factory o2 sensor if you decide to sell the bike.

The Bazzaz o2 Stabilizer is some sort of giant resistor that is supposed to replace the factory o2 sensor. The biggest problem I have with it is that you are using an unknown quality electronic component to replace something that engineers at KTM as well as Dynojet designed into both of their respective products. For all you know, that could be a resistor designed for a 1990's boombox that you are plugging into the electrical system of your motorcycle.

Aside from that short rant, you don't need to leave the factory o2 sensor zip-tied to your bike. The kit comes with an extra o2 bung. You can have a muffler shop weld it to your exhaust for about $25 or just JB Weld it and no one would be the wiser. If you are really concerned about aesthetics , you could add some spacers to make it the o2 sensor appear more flush, but honestly all you are doing is making a more visually appealing way to hold the sensor in place. With the WBC2, the factory o2 sensor does nothing more than prevent a CEL without frying your electrical system, and allow your WBC2 to feed the ECU spoofed AFRs.
 

Vitboy

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Thanks for your answers,

I initially thought that the AFR was set by Hardracing with the LCD 200 ("In the Closed loop section the WBC2 is feeding the spoof signal to the Stock ECU via the low voltage output (Green wire) to get the ECU to run the A/F that has been Pre-set by us")

So i thought that the AFR was fixed for the closed loop section. Anyway if you say that's working fine, that's good enought for me :D.
As for the stock 0² sensor, let's forgot about the bazzaz eliminator ( that's too bad Ia02), i'm looking for a muffler shop near by :). Cu :)
 

ia02

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So, another update. I swapped back to the stock O2 sensor/zip tie setup. I still have the check engine light. So either I messed something up (which I doubt), or it takes a while for the ECU to clear the check engine light, or my check engine light is strangely coincidental and unrelated (I also removed the charcoal canister at the same time, but the electronic vent valve is still plugged in so I don't think should be the cause either).

Does anyone know how quickly the check engine light is supposed to turn off after reconnecting the stock O2 sensor?

Did they do away with blink codes on 2017+ models? My check engine light is just on solid....no blinking.

Any help is appreciated
 

ia02

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As for the stock 0² sensor, let's forgot about the bazzaz eliminator ( that's too bad Ia02), i'm looking for a muffler shop near by :). Cu :)

For what it's worth I found a slick place to safety wire the stock O2 sensor. Ditch the horn (mine is a track bike only) and safety wire it to the old horn bracket under the left side faring. It's visible if you look down there, but its truly away from anything, including the frame. I can live with that.
 
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ia02

Member
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Thanks for your answers,

I initially thought that the AFR was set by Hardracing with the LCD 200 ("In the Closed loop section the WBC2 is feeding the spoof signal to the Stock ECU via the low voltage output (Green wire) to get the ECU to run the A/F that has been Pre-set by us")

So i thought that the AFR was fixed for the closed loop section. Anyway if you say that's working fine, that's good enought for me :D.

I too am still having trouble wrapping my head around the conflicting information regarding whether the closed loop AFR is set by hard racing, or whether the target AFR auto tune table in the PCV software is actually taken into consideration. If the AFR is set by hard racing AND there are values in that target AFR table then what effect do those values have? Those values, and the auto tune trims are populating the 0-60% cells when the trims are accepted, which I thought was supposed to be a bad thing. Hard racing, can you please clarify?
 

ia02

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Another update: I solved my check engine light by messing with the idle cell values in the fuel table. I noticed that the bike was running exceptionally lean at idle and was throwing a P0130 code as a result. I think it was all just way out of range and the corrections in the fuel table were fighting the ECU. I zero'd out the 0% column in the map that Tom provided in his other forum post. Bike is idling at 13.2-13.5 now, is no longer dying at idle and the check engine light did not come back.

So, I suspect the Bazazz O2 stabilizer probably does work just fine as swapping back to the stock O2 sensor resulted in the exact same check engine light. I have not swapped back to the O2 stabilizer to confirm and am not sure if I will bother.
 

Tom

New Member
ia02, the fuel cell values on that map are meant for a much larger than factory injector. If you are running a stock injector, you will likely blow your motor from the amount it has been leaned out.
 

Vitboy

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Thanks for the Update Ia02.

I watched the video and i think it is as Tom describe it. Lcd 200 to enable the low voltage output then you fill the fuel cell with whatever you desire :)

Cya
 

ia02

Member
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ia02, the fuel cell values on that map are meant for a much larger than factory injector. If you are running a stock injector, you will likely blow your motor from the amount it has been leaned out.

I’m using the same large injector you are from gray area KTM so I was surprised it was idling so lean
 
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Vitboy

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Hi,

I just installed the Hardracing WBC2 ans i just wanted to say how easy it was. Even for complete noobs like me at mechanics.

For a perfect installation i recommand to get a fuse tape ( the one earlier on this thread) and for the output of the WBC2 a connector like this : https://www.google.com/search?clien...iw=1525&bih=774&dpr=0.9#imgrc=r0StrDWofIlKyM:

I precise that the kit is "all included" and it will work without thoses items but it will be easier and, if your a noob like me, more reliable.

Otherwise it's working perfectly and trims are created even in the 2% throttle column. It's funny to use and you can feel the bike improving as you charge the new trims.

Good mod !
 

HardRacing

Supporting Vendor
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Hi,

I just installed the Hardracing WBC2 ans i just wanted to say how easy it was. Even for complete noobs like me at mechanics.

For a perfect installation i recommand to get a fuse tape ( the one earlier on this thread) and for the output of the WBC2 a connector like this : https://www.google.com/search?clien...iw=1525&bih=774&dpr=0.9#imgrc=r0StrDWofIlKyM:

I precise that the kit is "all included" and it will work without thoses items but it will be easier and, if your a noob like me, more reliable.

Otherwise it's working perfectly and trims are created even in the 2% throttle column. It's funny to use and you can feel the bike improving as you charge the new trims.

Good mod !
.

Thanks for posting your opinion and feedback.
We greatly appreciate you taking the time to do that.


.
 

A0AM

Member
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I just finished up my install (PCV, WBC2, Quick shifter, and POD-300). Everything was included in the kit and the instructions were simple to follow. Videos were a great help and very informative. Bike is completely different - better. I look forward to seeing what it does as I dial it in.

I do have a question though. I also ordered the Map switch. Does it work well with this set up? I’ve read that with the auto tune it basically means that the switch will toggle on the auto tune ability (rather than switching between two maps). But, when plugged into the computer I never saw the auto tune light go on (in the software) regardless of switch position.
 

HardRacing

Supporting Vendor
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I just finished up my install (PCV, WBC2, Quick shifter, and POD-300). Everything was included in the kit and the instructions were simple to follow. Videos were a great help and very informative. Bike is completely different - better. I look forward to seeing what it does as I dial it in.

I do have a question though. I also ordered the Map switch. Does it work well with this set up? I’ve read that with the auto tune it basically means that the switch will toggle on the auto tune ability (rather than switching between two maps). But, when plugged into the computer I never saw the auto tune light go on (in the software) regardless of switch position.
.

The Autotune light will ONLY come on........ when you reach a Square on the map that has a Target A/F and the unit actually has to make a change (Autotune)
So pretty much it would need to be on a DYNO.
AS for the MAP Switch, it's made to switch between maps.
But, yes you can wire it as a "Autotune" on/off switch as well.
All that must be setup correctly in the software options and of course wired up correctly.


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grinder96

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I have read through this thread and have a PCV and WB2 on the way from Hard Racing. Looking forward to the install and coming here for any questions!
 

Solidwire

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So if I understand this correctly, you can adjust your AFR’s in the 2-60 percent columns, but it will not make a difference since the WBC2 controls that area?
 
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