mr-fabricator
New Member
What is the air gap.supposed to be ??
What is the air gap.supposed to be ??
This is great, I'm not planning on taking my bike out to the track untill next year so bike is only for street but if it makes a good improvement over stock I'd love to upgrade my shock.
I admit I can understand some of the stuff being said in a rudimentary way but alot of it is over my head, but I think I understand well enough to follow some simple instructions on what parts I need so I could get them and get a suspension shop to put it together.
Or if you were planning on putting some stuff together to sell as a complete unit Formula 390 I'd definitely be interested in that. I was looking at the racing shocks for sale by WP, but honestly I can't justify the cost of those considering I'm not nearly pushing the boundaries on my bike as it is.
If your only making a limited amount though and they are called for, I don't mind sourcing the parts myself with the info in this thread.... can't believe I havn't seen this thread earlier.
Good work guys.
I admit I can understand some of the stuff being said in a rudimentary way but alot of it is over my head, but I think I understand well enough to follow some simple instructions on what parts I need so I could get them and get a suspension shop to put it together.
Or if you were planning on putting some stuff together to sell as a complete unit Formula 390 I'd definitely be interested in that. I was looking at the racing shocks for sale by WP, but honestly I can't justify the cost of those considering I'm not nearly pushing the boundaries on my bike as it is.
If your only making a limited amount though and they are called for, I don't mind sourcing the parts myself with the info in this thread.... can't believe I havn't seen this thread earlier.
Good work guys.
I will be putting some together for sale yeah. I've got 5 more shocks headed this way already. I'll be ordering the parts to do my shock hopefully in the next day or two... then testing it out. If all works out as anticipated, then I'll take orders for 5 more, get rider weights, and get the correct rated spring for them... build the shocks, and ship 'em out... well, once the Admin gets around to finally turning on / announcing my sponsorship.
I can't officially sell anything through the site as my business until that happens due to forum rules... but yeah, plan is to offer shocks up for those who aren't able or aren't inclined to do it all themselves... and yeah, the setup will be SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than the WP shock, or an Ohlins when they are finally available...
The stock spring is a possible work-around yeah and has been being discussed in PM as the 180mm stock spring length does give a bit more preload. That's still too much rider sag tho.
If you go up one more on preload, do you lose all static sag?
What's your weight? Nekkid and/or in gear, prefer in gear weight but either will do.
RaceTech calculations for spring rate for me (my rider weight varies but averages around 215#) for the R6 shock on the RC390 came in with a 11.6 spring with 10mm of preload using their threaded preload adapter.
Edwardp33
Member
So what is the final verdict on the R6 Shock? I have the Akrapovic exhaust. Any thoughts on this shock fitting with my exhaust?
No final verdict yet. We are getting close, and things are looking REALLY promising, but we aren't done with development just quite yet.
I don't know if any of the testers have an Akrapovic exhaust. I can say it'll fit the stock exhaust, and it'll fit with the exhaust I'll be releasing... but until somebody tries it with the Akrapovic that's still an unknown. If one of the guys testing has an Akrapovic, speak up fellas!
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Ryanthegreat1
New Member
I am tipping the scale at 180lbs when testing sag. Street clothes, no gear.
Wow just jumped on the scale with my leathers and such. 200lbs. Who knew gear would be so heavy!
Time to pony up for some of that thin kangaroo leather.
Wow just jumped on the scale with my leathers and such. 200lbs. Who knew gear would be so heavy!
Time to pony up for some of that thin kangaroo leather.
OK that helps. If you put the preload on #2, do you still have any free sag? What's your rider sag on position #2 with gear?
Ryanthegreat1
New Member
Stock Spring on R6 shock. Me at 180lbs.
Preload 1
Static - 6mm
Rider - 45mm
Preload 2
Static - 4mm
Rider - 39mm
Preload 3
Static - 0mm
Rider - 38mm
Preload 1
Static - 6mm
Rider - 45mm
Preload 2
Static - 4mm
Rider - 39mm
Preload 3
Static - 0mm
Rider - 38mm
Well... NONE of those are good.
Maybe a much lighter rider could make the stock spring work, but then they would also probably be happy with the stock shock at that point too...BTW, just received and pulled apart an ebay R6 shock. Ryan, it looks like the reason the "compression" adjustment had very little noticeable effect is that it is primarily a high speed adjustment, and the "rebound" adjustment is a combined adjustment as you noted. Little bit of a PITA to take apart with the circlips above and below the seal head. Now I just need a new bump stop and I'll put it back together.
-Sean
-Sean
Ryanthegreat1
New Member
Well we are making progress.
So a stiffer spring with less preload would give the correct static sag and rider sag?
So a stiffer spring with less preload would give the correct static sag and rider sag?
Basically, yes. The stock spring being variable makes things all wacky. With a straight rate spring, it's easier to calculate, but then you are also tuning for a specific weight... so if one starts packing on extra poundage from crumpets, muffins, and cookies... then you'll need to add more preload. Get enough preload tho, and then static sag disappears. So basically yeah, stiffer spring, less preload.
For my weight, I need a 11.6 rear spring. A 12.5 is also workable with even lighter preload, but the 11.6 with 10mm of preload should be right for me and MY weight (215#)... using the racetech threaded preload adjuster, and ditching the standard stepped preload that comes on the shock.
I'm seeing if I can get him to share with me what the formula is, and what the availble spring rates are, so we can self serve without having to constantly bug him for every rider who wants to do the swap.
mr-fabricator
New Member
Matt , just ordered a racetech spring and threaded preload adjuster myself , Im 180/190 ( depending on crumpet intake ) went for a 12.5 spring , others lean towards a stiffer spring , especially from racetech . How dod u come to your weight of spring conclusion ? Or like me u just need to start somewhere and went for that ??
On the compression note , i asumed the rebound adjuster did a little bit of compression to and the actual compression was a higher speed tune device . Will know more when i get the bike on the track .
Ps i did my sag's last night with the stock r6 spring . 17mm static on preload 8 and a further 40 some mm with me on the bike . Certainly need to be 11and upwards for the new spring .
On the compression note , i asumed the rebound adjuster did a little bit of compression to and the actual compression was a higher speed tune device . Will know more when i get the bike on the track .
Ps i did my sag's last night with the stock r6 spring . 17mm static on preload 8 and a further 40 some mm with me on the bike . Certainly need to be 11and upwards for the new spring .
I've been working with one of the techs from RaceTech Mike Crow. He'd ask questions, I'd take measurements and send him the answers. He's ask different questions, and I'd answer those. He then told me which spring he believe would work best. The plan is to test that out, and see how his calculations do, then figure out a means of determining X spring for Y weight for all to be able to use as a reference / share the calculations for spring reat / preload amount. If the 11 spring is too light, then I'll try the 12... for now tho I'm going with Mike's recommendation as we work toward figuring out springs for the swap. It's looking like the 11-12 realm is where I'm going to end up, so just have to wait for my new spring to arrive and test it out. Wasn't able to sync up with the sales gal this afternoon (was in the shop all day and phone battery was dead) so will try again tomorrow and see if I can get the credit card info to her and get my parts en route for texting hopefully next week.
Yeah, I saw that post earlier by SPG about rebound a combined adjustment. Good observation.
mr-fabricator
New Member
As soon as my stuff is here ill post up figures , i think we need another section for technical archiving , closed to posts but for reference , thinhs like spring rate / oil wt/ road or track / rider weight and possibly bike weight . My own bike is around 140kg fueled and track side and theirs zero weight over the back , with all these factors and solid figures hopefully others can reference and get a ball park and start point for their own set ups . Other topics to like tires , brake rotor and pad , engine tune and exhaust . Its all good and invaluable for years to come . Feel quite privileged to be with u guys and being one of the first . Pioneers
As soon as my stuff is here ill post up figures , i think we need another section for technical archiving , closed to posts but for reference , thinhs like spring rate / oil wt/ road or track / rider weight and possibly bike weight . My own bike is around 140kg fueled and track side and theirs zero weight over the back , with all these factors and solid figures hopefully others can reference and get a ball park and start point for their own set ups . Other topics to like tires , brake rotor and pad , engine tune and exhaust . Its all good and invaluable for years to come . Feel quite privileged to be with u guys and being one of the first . Pioneers
Agreed.
Be nice once everything is proven; from concept to creation and tested. Maybe a Sticky section with all the data, findings, charts, videos on you tube of walk through, etc? Or a wiki? Like the Ninja 250 Riders club does? a wiki or sticky forum section?
I do not even own one yet(street version), hope to from the moment I saw one, not sure when I will be able to own considering the costs(especially with a son into dirtbikes and motorsports, he comes first)...but I hope some day to.
I have been reading and researching what people are doing so I can line up a game plan on improvements when I do get one.
I have a 00' R6 shock lying around(as well as many other R6 parts and CBR 954 parts, etc.) from my days of taking a couple model year R6's to the track
Very cool to see the ingenuity and improvements you guys are making on these.
As soon as my stuff is here ill post up figures , i think we need another section for technical archiving , closed to posts but for reference , thinhs like spring rate / oil wt/ road or track / rider weight and possibly bike weight . My own bike is around 140kg fueled and track side and theirs zero weight over the back , with all these factors and solid figures hopefully others can reference and get a ball park and start point for their own set ups . Other topics to like tires , brake rotor and pad , engine tune and exhaust . Its all good and invaluable for years to come . Feel quite privileged to be with u guys and being one of the first . Pioneers
UPS tracking says my shock parts and springs for the front will arrive next Tuesday the 7th... I expect I know what I'll be doing on Wednesday.
I rebuilt my R6 shock today. Bit of a PITA to take apart. GP Suspension has new seal heads for $25 or so; certainly worthwhile so you can get away from the double snap ring, multi piece stock seal. I added a little length while I had it apart and made a new schrader cap for the reservoir.
I also found that a spare linkage I had around from a GSXR 600 has the needle bearing sleeve that is the right OD, length, and correct 10mm ID. Turned up some shims and put it in. Probably be a week or two before I get to test it out...
-Sean
I also found that a spare linkage I had around from a GSXR 600 has the needle bearing sleeve that is the right OD, length, and correct 10mm ID. Turned up some shims and put it in. Probably be a week or two before I get to test it out...
-Sean
mr-fabricator
New Member
Good work as always sean , must say im geleous . Cant seem to find 10 mins at the mo and my workshop is all packed up due to a move ! Soon have my lathe out and a space to work in .
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