Trackday Issues

[Andy]

Out on track today at Cadwell Park!

Positives ... the Samco hoses, Motul coolant and AS3 Performance rad cap worked to keep temperature down. Also new set of Pirelli DRIIs on working better than last time out on the Metzelers. ☺

Downside ... two days prior to going the paddock stand collapsed resulting in broken brake lever, dented can and the front fender bracket shearing off

Also today the bike started having shifting issues, trying to get it from 3rd to 4th, 5th and 6th was impossible. On a stand in the paddock no problems but as soon as load put on nothing. Do you reckon it is linked to the rearsets I've installed or something internal?

 

[hvlmike]

The stock detent arm/spring is a poor deign causing shifting issues. Factory Pro has a redesigned detent arm with stiffer spring that cures the problem.
I haven't missed a shift since doing this mod.

 

[antarius]

Out on track today at Cadwell Park! 

Positives ... the Samco hoses, Motul coolant and AS3 Performance rad cap worked to keep temperature down. Also new set of Pirelli DRIIs on working better than last time out on the Metzelers. ☺

Downside ... two days prior to going the paddock stand collapsed resulting in broken brake lever, dented can and the front fender bracket shearing off 

Also today the bike started having shifting issues, trying to get it from 3rd to 4th, 5th and 6th was impossible. On a stand in the paddock no problems but as soon as load put on nothing. Do you reckon it is linked to the rearsets I've installed or something internal?

Are you running standard shift or GP shift?

 

[Drstimpy]

What year?


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[Andy]

2015 bike, standard shift pattern with KTM rearsets about 1800 miles on it.

 

[Formula390]

Check if the shift shaft, shift shaft arm, shift shaft link rod, or shift lever were bent.

Is it that the lever is going up, and it won't shift, are you getting a false neutral, partial engagement/shift, or will the lever just not budge. The answer there will likely tell where the fault lives. I wouldn't SUSPECT the detent arm. It would be pretty damn hard to damage that from the bike falling off the stand.

The KTM Cup Bike rearsets can be a little finicky I've heard with damage to the left side of the bike and shifting. Or do you have the stock streetbike footpeg/rearsets? If THAT'S the case and you have the streetbike parts, throw that **** away post haste and get something with more cornering clearance. I'm partial to the Tyga stuff (obviously!) but there aren't any really WRONG answers for rearsets, just ones that cost more or less and availability (and/or ease in ordering and promptness of delivery of) spares.

BTW: Any and every REAL racer would have dived under the bike. LOL Sorry about the problems you're facing.

 

[Fangfactor]

The stock detent arm/spring is a poor deign causing shifting issues. Factory Pro has a redesigned detent arm with stiffer spring that cures the problem.
I haven't missed a shift since doing this mod.

Same here! fixed my shifting issues as well

Also check that shift arm is tight on the spline and that the shifting rod connecting to the gear lever isn't fouling with anything as you change gears

 

[Andy]

I fitted the KTM rearsets and the arm is as supplied in the kit. Everything is tight but at the shaft end there is some play when you move the lever before it meets resistance prior to any gear engagement.

As said before up on the stands it’ll change through being revd, off stands it’ll change up through gears at slow speed but out on track it’ll go up the gears to 3rd then occasionally you can get onto 4th but 5 and 6 are problematic. No noises coming from engine, clutch or box. Might try taking the linkage off and put it all back on also try GP shift.

If all fails I’ll try this Factory Pro kit, anyone know of any UK stockists/importers?

Need to get it sorted as bikes due MOT in a few weeks. If not done I’ll have to defer MOT and get it SORN and work on it over winter ready for next years trackday season.

Also add the bike fell onto brake side so don’t think that is linked. On the trackday it performed brilliantly for two sessions but started playing up on the final two. The belly pan was rubbing on linkage but I cut it back to stop that, gear lever goes all way up until it won’t go anymore and it works the shaft but won’t go into gear. The gears hold in place, even the ones (4/5/6) if they do go in on the odd occasion and there is no jumping out of gear. Coming down the box no issues. I tried short shifting but again they wouldn’t go in.

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[Andy]

BTW: Any and every REAL racer would have dived under the bike. LOL Sorry about the problems you're facing.

I did, the wife comes into the garage and says “What you playing silly buggers for?” Me “Oh you know I like laying in the garage squashed under a motorbike!”


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[Formula390]

While in general I never believe in coincidences, it could be the fall is unrelated if it fell on the right side then. I would look at the shift detent arm as the likely candidate then. Otherwise, sounds like you have a bent shift fork.

 

[Andy]

Been and had a play with it today, tried various adjustment positions on the linkages. Again with bike off you can change the gears up and down with the shift lever. Running up on the stand you can change up and down and higher revs it takes a bit to get it into gears. Took it for a run up the road and back and low speed and revs it changes up but higher revs/speed its problematic again in 5th and 6th.

I got to a point where current setting is ok but 5th and 6th are hit or miss unless revs are reduced down. Could the clutch be an issue, I notice if you slowly operate the clutch lever up changes are more successful!?

Also re. Shift forks would they not be an issue coming down the box?

Another question is there and tips for setting the KTM rearsets up, check I've installed it correctly e.g. right bushings fitted etc.

 

[Andy]

So I've ordered a Factory Pro detent arm, give that a try first then see what happens!

 

[Formula390]

Could the clutch be an issue, I notice if you slowly operate the clutch lever up changes are more successful!?
Also re. Shift forks would they not be an issue coming down the box?

You're using the clutch for upshifts, on the track? Even before I got the quick shifter, I rarely used the clutch for upshifts... on ANY of my bikes, even on the street. If the clutch were the issue you'd have dragging at a stop in gear with the clutch in / pulling you forward or stalling the engine. Had a racebike that did that once the motor got fully up to temp. Made race launches troublesome because I had to leave it out of gear and bang it down when the flag dropped. One of my team mates had so much problems he'd just pin the throttle and bash it into first. He'd get the holeshot or stall it. LOL Anyway, point being, no... I wouldn't suspect a clutch problem to be related to your not being able to shift, or you'd not be able to shift under speed and would likely be noticing other problems with grabbing. Likely the slowly operating the clutch lever is just allowing the motor to rev down / sync and you're shifting slower in the first place. I could be wrong here tho. I've got a good recipe for crow. So the question is, can you clutchless shift it more successfully that shifting with a clutch?

Bent shift forks in my experience tend to be more not getting the gears in at all / jumping out of gear, but I've also seen it where the bike just wouldn't upshift at all when it's the second fork for the taller gears. Usually what gets bent is going from first past neutral and into second. I don't know how many sportbikes I've seen without a working 2nd gear. You'd just shift from first straight to third. You could shift still, and just shift straight past the gear in question. Of course you usually also then had a stick of dynamite bouncing around in the bottom of your transmission BEGGING to catch between gears and lock up the wheel. If it's sometimes shifting, if it's bent, it's likely not bent much.

 

[Andy]

Thanks for the tips and advice.

I'll fit the detent and try that, seems like a good addition anyway. Then it'll be off to the shop for them to have a look if that doesn't work.

Fortunately Autumn and Winter is on the way here so won't be doing much riding.