Loud clacking from motor

[Tom]

Looks like my woes continue. After a hard ride on the way to work yesterday, I noticed a the sound of baseball cards on a bicycle spoke coming from my motor. I have a full Yoshi exhaust, so for the noise to be loud enough to be heard over the exhaust, I knew there was an issue.

Took the fairings off to help in locating the source of the noise, and to check for any possible exhaust leaks.

No exhaust leaks, and when starting the bike when cold the noise is even louder. It now has a very distinct metal clang/impact sound. It increases in rate with the RPMs of the motor. Bike seems to run fine, no smoke from the exhaust, coolant level doesnt change in the overflow bottle, and oil looks normal.

Any ideas on what it could be? The bike is still under warranty, but I do have the Gray Area KTM titanium valve seats, so I'm worried KTM will try to blame it on that. Thus I would have to pay for the labor and parts to fix.

 

[Trailerboy531]

Probably coming from the top of the motor? Sounds like it could be valve slap or loose timing chain. Check your valve clearances and you'll find something loose in the process.

 

[ReidMcT]

Use a stethoscope (long screwdriver with the handle in your ear) to determine exactly where the sound is. I doubt that a titanium retainer has slipped off, because that would result in a dropped valve, and the engine would not be running normally, if at all.

Maybe a loose spark plug? Maybe cam chain tensioner? Clutch?

Anyway, you're taking it to a dealer for warranty service, right? so, let us know what it is. Sorry to learn of your trouble so early on.

 

[Tom]

Dropped the bike off at Mountain Motorsports yesterday. The service guy said that if it’s determined that the problem was caused by an after market accessory, the I would be responsible for the labor and the parts... Which I under stand, but just the fact he made a point to really drive that home, makes me nervous that KTM or the dealership has been looking for reasons to reject warranty claims.

Mountain Motorsports are the one that installed the titanium valve seats, so they already know the valve train is modified. It’s obvious I have a power commander and WBC2 (the o2 gauge is on the dash, so you dont even need to look for the control units to know).

They also made it seem like a big deal that I changed the oil instead of them. Bike has 3,700 miles on it, and I changed it at 1,600. They (MTM) also performed the 600 mile maint at 550 miles. If anything it should show that I take good care of the bike.

 

[Tom]

Running through my head, there are tons ow ways in which they can deem the issue as due to aftermarket parts. They could blame the power commander for pretty much anything in the cylinder. The K&N filter with open lid mod for damage to the valves (less restriction makes it easier for particulates to enter). The titanium valve seats for the valve train. The bike has a full exhaust and tune, so more power than what the drivetrain was meant to handle.

Also the dealership threw in the option “or if the damage was due to the way you ride the bike”.

I wont know until some time next week what they will say, but I cant shake this bad feeling I have about this.

The sales guy said that it didnt matter what aftermarket parts I put on the bike, as long as they were designed for the bike (basically no nitrous, no turbo). He then sold me on the ridiculously long term extended warranty (5 years in addition to the factory 1 year) for a additional $1,500.

 

[Formula390]

My thought immediately was rod bearing, but that's a knock significantly louder than "baseball card in spokes" so just have to see if you aren't able to diagnose the noise yourself.

You are PERFECTLY allowed to change the oil instead of a dealership.

Read this if you aren't aware of what your rights are:
Magnuson?Moss Warranty Act - Wikipedia

One of the key provisions of the act is that dealerships MUST provide evidence that the work or change was the ONLY possible cause of a failure. That's not to say that you might not need to threaten a lawsuit and file a complaint with the FTC, but if you are having this kind of an issue with your dealership, you need to find a better dealer. Now. Not all dealerships are created equal!!!

 

[Tom]

ItÂ’s funny you mention that, Matt. I have a feeling itÂ’s a rod bearing, and even brought up the possibility when dropping the bike off. That may be one of the reasons why me doing my own oil change was such a big deal to them.

It started as a ticking, evolved into what sounded like two ball-peen hammers clacking together by the time I got the bike to the dealer. Sounds a lot like a rod bearing progressing to total failure.

The oil in the sight glass looked to be in good condition for 1,600 miles, and was a little bit above the full marks with the motor fully warmed. I over filled it very slightly, but not bad enough to warrant bleeding any of it back out.

The oil change kit was from AOMC, and consists of Motorex oil, and an OEM oil filter along with replacements for both of the filter screens and a new seal ring. With everything being OEM KTM, i dont see how they could possibly blame the oil change. The one thing I am afraid of is them blaming high RPMs for spinning a bearing. Hence why the service guy setup the whole “Depending on how you ride it” part of the warranty.

 

[Formula390]

ItÂ’s funny you mention that, Matt. I have a feeling itÂ’s a rod bearing, and even brought up the possibility when dropping the bike off. That may be one of the reasons why me doing my own oil change was such a big deal to them.

It started as a ticking, evolved into what sounded like two ball-peen hammers clacking together by the time I got the bike to the dealer. Sounds a lot like a rod bearing progressing to total failure.

The oil in the sight glass looked to be in good condition for 1,600 miles, and was a little bit above the full marks with the motor fully warmed. I over filled it very slightly, but not bad enough to warrant bleeding any of it back out.

The oil change kit was from AOMC, and consists of Motorex oil, and an OEM oil filter along with replacements for both of the filter screens and a new seal ring. With everything being OEM KTM, i dont see how they could possibly blame the oil change. The one thing I am afraid of is them blaming high RPMs for spinning a bearing. Hence why the service guy setup the whole “Depending on how you ride it” part of the warranty.

I've spun my share of main bearings, so "knock knock knock" always triggers "Fuck, the damn rod spun!!!" I spun the #3 rod on a Kawasaki Concours years and years and years ago while doing a cross country ride and was 50 miles west of Saint Louis. Had just fueled up and was having a blast riding a wheelie down the onramp and the bearing let go. FUCK!!! I lived in Seattle. That. Sucked! Luckily I had a friend in Nashville who was able to come fetch me and the busted bike. Ended up having to fly home. So much for THAT summer vacation! Did similar on a

You can bounce the motor off the rev limiter every day and still should not spin a main bearing. That whole "depending on how you ride it" bit is utter and complete bullshit and sounds like they are trying to preload a denial of coverage because they don't want to deal with KTM North America with getting them to cover the fix. It's not unusual for KTM NA to deny a claim at first, and the dealer needs to go to bat for their customer to get a warranty repair covered. If your dealer doesn't have your back, you need another dealer.

 

[HolyJeansMan]

Tom, I have had far to many poor experiences with Marietta Mountain Motorsports. I agree with Matt in needing to find a new dealer to work with.

 

[MIBISHI]

So if we have a pcv or rapid bike that voids our warranty?

 

[HolyJeansMan]

I think if that is the cause of the issue that you brought it in for then I would guess that's out of pocket. But if it's for something unrelated and under warranty it should be covered

Sent from my E6910 using Tapatalk

 

[Tom]

The bike has been at the dealer for a week now, but they haven’t started on it yet. I keep getting the same “It’s on our priority as the next bike”.

It’s too hot for my fat arse to ride anyways, so I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt that they have staffing issues with the 4th of July holiday. I have a feeling the true priority is getting bikes ready for sale, as this would be more lucrative than potential warranty work.

 

[Tom]

I got a call from the dealership, they said the bike threw a shim. They want to tear apart the motor to see the extent of the damage. I highly doubt KTM will warranty anything. At this point, I'm thinking it would be better to just part the bike out and get a more reliable brand. Spending $2k - $3k to repair a $5k bike doesnt make sense.

 

[HolyJeansMan]

If they are the ones to have installed the shims and valve seats then I would think it would fall on Mountain for poor work quality. Hope you saved the receipts to show that it was their work that failed

Sent from my E6910 using Tapatalk

 

[Tom]

It was them that brought it up to me about the install. They saw in their records that I had them do it during the first service interval. They had to get at the shims anyways, so I thought I would save a few bucks and have them do the install on top of the labor charge for checking the valve stretch.

One thing that crosses my mind is that the titanium units use a smaller size shim than the oddball 10mm shims for the OEM. Is it possible they could have inadvertently used a 10mm shim, and it would have lasted for almost 3,000 miles before failure?

 

[ReidMcT]

Is it possible they could have inadvertently used a 10mm shim, and it would have lasted for almost 3,000 miles before failure?

Having recently installed the titanium keepers, I am certain that neither of those things are possible.

 

[Superpacman13]

I am highly suspicious of one of these bikes "throwing a shim" especially with the Ti retainers in there. Most of the time its a war to get the shim out of the retainer without the cam in! I can't wait to hear more.

 

[Tom]

This is turning into a nightmare, the dealership is saying the titanium retainers were destroyed so I'll need a new set of those. Still no word on what KTM will say, but they still wanna take the motor apart which leads me to suspect they think the valves are destroyed as well. I can only imagine how much the end bill is going to look, all I wanted was a light weight motorcycle that I can enjoy for years to come, instead I've wound up with a money pit.

I just dont understand, I thought I did everything right. I never skimped or cut corners to get the bike to where it is today. In 3,600 miles and under a year of ownership I've changed the oil, replaced all screens, and filters with OEM KTM parts and Motorex oil. I've upgraded the radiator and fan assembly to the 2019 parts, replaced the cheap green coolant with the KTM recommended Motorex pink stuff. Every nut and bolt has been meticulously torqued to spec. Yet now it sits at the dealership racking up a costly repair bill that might end up being more expensive that just buying a new bike.

Everyone told me to stick with Yamaha or Kawasaki, but I wanted something different. Hindsight is 20-20.

 

[=maz=]

This is turning into a nightmare, the dealership is saying the titanium retainers were destroyed so I'll need a new set of those. Still no word on what KTM will say, but they still wanna take the motor apart which leads me to suspect they think the valves are destroyed as well. I can only imagine how much the end bill is going to look, all I wanted was a light weight motorcycle that I can enjoy for years to come, instead I've wound up with a money pit.

I just dont understand, I thought I did everything right. I never skimped or cut corners to get the bike to where it is today. In 3,600 miles and under a year of ownership I've changed the oil, replaced all screens, and filters with OEM KTM parts and Motorex oil. I've upgraded the radiator and fan assembly to the 2019 parts, replaced the cheap green coolant with the KTM recommended Motorex pink stuff. Every nut and bolt has been meticulously torqued to spec. Yet now it sits at the dealership racking up a costly repair bill that might end up being more expensive that just buying a new bike.

Everyone told me to stick with Yamaha or Kawasaki, but I wanted something different. Hindsight is 20-20.

Sit down and write a clear, non-emotional account of your entire experience with the bike, different retailers and manufacturer...Post that on KTM's social media pages, you should get a response a bit quicker, don't give up.

 

[Superpacman13]

Please stay in touch with me. I want to know the cause and will certainly help you out to make it work.