rc390 Catches Fire after Crash

[philipviana]

I crashed my RC at Thunder Hill in California last weekend making a rookie mistake. M body position wasn't great and I was leaning the bike over too much. When my foot peg scraped the ground, I got scared and overreacted by standing the bike up. I both wheels slid and before I knew it I was on the ground and my bike was in the grass. At first, things were fine. After about 5 minutes, the bike began smoking and then caught fire. Here's a photo album I posted on reddit / imgur.

No one is quite sure how the bike caught fire. First off, I know that I ran away from the bike and forgot to hit the engine cut off switch. Some people were telling me that shouldn't matter since most new bikes have auto-off sensors that kill the engine when the bike is tipped over. There was some speculation that the sensor didnt work on my bike, but I'm not so sure, since I have tipped the bike over (in my driveway) before and the engine turned off immediately. Another possibility is that hot engine parts pressed against dry grass on a hot day just happened to catch fire on their own.

I'm wondering if I replace this with another rc390. I love the bike so much, and feel like I could enjoy years of riding on the rc390 before I get my first 600cc bike. I think I am (understandably) a little hesitant to get another, mainly on the basis of reliability. One other thing is that I am a tall guy (6'-2") and I look large on the bike in videos and photos, so I'm wondering if it's smarter to just get a 600 while I have the opportunity. I know I need to improve my body position and that I'll look more natural on the bike if I learn to keep my arms loose and get low to the bike, but I think it's a valid concern.

What do you guys think?

 

[stevieboy]

At least you don't look too much worse for wear. Stock pegs? I would guess on the grass fire part too. I think if it was a fuel fire the bike would look even worse. Rearsets are tough for big guys to use body position would probably help.

 

[Ryanthegreat1]

I just crashed mine in about the same way on Monday at about 65mph. No fire. When I got to the bike everything was off even with the key still in the on position. Hardly a scratch really. My gear on the other hand...

 

[unicorn_violence]

dang i saw that video as well. did you grab the brakes hard when you were standing up? that bike definitely bucked you off! i have stood by bike up a couple times but never had the bike do that to me. i feel your pain on being too tall for the RC (i'm 6,4). the bike is small, but I've learned from sitting on 600's and bigger bikes that unfortunately, we will probably look goofy on any sport bike. it might just be a little extra goofy on the rc, like this:

the same thought has crossed my mind as well, but i think i'm gonna stick with the rc for a couple years. the thing about small bikes (especially if your tall) is that you have more control and confidence than you would a bigger bike. you learn how to corner quick to keep the speed up, and if you make mistakes they generally are more forgiving. plus it is easier to practice good body positioning on a small bike i feel. all that will transition over when you move up to the bigger bikes.
i have dragged my peg a couple times. most recently was a practice session at high plains raceway. since i have tyga pegs, they don't fold up. the peg literally raised the back tire and i started going sideways. luckily the corner was a slow one(corner speed was about 40), and i was able to correct it. i wish my gopro was filming cause it would have been a good one.

id say get another rc, or move to another 300 bike like the r3 (if you are worried about reliability) and continue to build your skills before you go bigger. i will say though, that these 300cc and 400cc sized sport bikes from all manufacturers are cheaply made. the rc isn't the only one that has had issues. just search google for "R3 recall".

 

[A1VW2NV]

I got a honda spree when I was in the 8th grade. A couple friends also got them around the same time and we'd race around neighborhoods and empty parking lots. It wasn't long before I had ground the center stand down a couple inches on both sides. It was about as much fun as a kid could have on a 50cc moped. lol

 

[Fasteddy]

Did you have the OEM battery or a light weight Li ? The damage in the battery box looks like electrical fire from high current short...

Grass fire from the super hot catalytic converter / muffler would be next suspect...

 

[robenever]

why does it look like its taking a nap

 

[Formula390]

I crashed my RC at Thunder Hill in California last weekend making a rookie mistake. {snip}

No one is quite sure how the bike caught fire. First off, I know that I ran away from the bike and forgot to hit the engine cut off switch. Some people were telling me that shouldn't matter since most new bikes have auto-off sensors that kill the engine when the bike is tipped over. There was some speculation that the sensor didnt work on my bike, but I'm not so sure, since I have tipped the bike over (in my driveway) before and the engine turned off immediately. Another possibility is that hot engine parts pressed against dry grass on a hot day just happened to catch fire on their own.

I'm wondering if I replace this with another rc390. I love the bike so much, and feel like I could enjoy years of riding on the rc390 before I get my first 600cc bike. I think I am (understandably) a little hesitant to get another, mainly on the basis of reliability. One other thing is that I am a tall guy (6'-2") and I look large on the bike in videos and photos, so I'm wondering if it's smarter to just get a 600 while I have the opportunity.

First off, glad you are OK. That's just the way it goes on the track sometimes. To learn, sometimes you gotta fall over. Pitty it ended so badly for the bike... but as I've always said... if you put a bike on the track you have to be prepared to light it on fire and smile at all the pretty colors the flames and smoke make. Tho you're one of the first I've seen in more than a decade who actually managed to pull it off.

Also, remember... you've now joined the proud ranks of those who've managed to burn their bike:


Looks to me like the tall grass poked up through the right side onto the exhaust, smoldered, and eventually ignited. There isn't really any way for the electrical system to start a fire like that just from tipping over.

As for being big, well, I'm 6'3" and 220#. I raced a NSR250 also. Big guys on little bikes actually have an advantage in one area, cornering. We can throw SO much more mass over the side that we don't have to lean the bike over as much. That means more traction, and faster corner speeds. We need it too, because we can't accelerate as hard on the straights... so we have to make it ALL up on brakes and in the turns. Don't worry about "looking weird" or whatever. If you ride it, you don't have to look at it... if you ride fast enough, nobody else does either. The key is what's it FEEL like to ride. Me, I LOVE little bikes, even with being a big guy. That's not to say I also don't have my gixxer 1000 and CBR 1100XX Blackbird. They are used for different things. I also have the RG500 Gamma, but that's just the garage queen / silly stupid bike. For sheer smiles per mile tho, the RC390 beats them all.... and if I was to put any of them on the track, it would be the RC390, in a heartbeat.

Don't listen to what everyone might say about being too big to ride a little bike. If you wanna learn how to ride REALLY well and REALLY fast, you wanna do it on a little bike. Any idiot can go fast in a straight line. It takes the uncommon one to do it in a turn... and bikers are graded on the curve, after all.

Also remember, the 390 is going to be way Way WAY cheaper to insure for you younger guys. Before you decide to pull the trigger on the 600, you might want to ask your insurance agent what it would cost for insuring it. It's not JUST the bike purchase price you need to be worried about.

 

[commandodave]

That should buff right out.


Bikes are replaceable but body parts are not. Glad you came through it okay.

 

[philipviana]

First off, glad you are OK. That's just the way it goes on the track sometimes. To learn, sometimes you gotta fall over. Pitty it ended so badly for the bike... but as I've always said... if you put a bike on the track you have to be prepared to light it on fire and smile at all the pretty colors the flames and smoke make. Tho you're one of the first I've seen in more than a decade who actually managed to pull it off.

Also, remember... you've now joined the proud ranks of those who've managed to burn their bike:
View attachment 2626 View attachment 2627

Looks to me like the tall grass poked up through the right side onto the exhaust, smoldered, and eventually ignited. There isn't really any way for the electrical system to start a fire like that just from tipping over.

As for being big, well, I'm 6'3" and 220#. I raced a NSR250 also. Big guys on little bikes actually have an advantage in one area, cornering. We can throw SO much more mass over the side that we don't have to lean the bike over as much. That means more traction, and faster corner speeds. We need it too, because we can't accelerate as hard on the straights... so we have to make it ALL up on brakes and in the turns. Don't worry about "looking weird" or whatever. If you ride it, you don't have to look at it... if you ride fast enough, nobody else does either. The key is what's it FEEL like to ride. Me, I LOVE little bikes, even with being a big guy. That's not to say I also don't have my gixxer 1000 and CBR 1100XX Blackbird. They are used for different things. I also have the RG500 Gamma, but that's just the garage queen / silly stupid bike. For sheer smiles per mile tho, the RC390 beats them all.... and if I was to put any of them on the track, it would be the RC390, in a heartbeat.

Don't listen to what everyone might say about being too big to ride a little bike. If you wanna learn how to ride REALLY well and REALLY fast, you wanna do it on a little bike. Any idiot can go fast in a straight line. It takes the uncommon one to do it in a turn... and bikers are graded on the curve, after all.

Also remember, the 390 is going to be way Way WAY cheaper to insure for you younger guys. Before you decide to pull the trigger on the 600, you might want to ask your insurance agent what it would cost for insuring it. It's not JUST the bike purchase price you need to be worried about.

Thanks for the great perspective, Formula390. After some soul searching I think I've decided on a 600, however. I'm looking at a Yamaha r6 on Saturday. I'm anticipating a lot of learning with regards to a bike that handles more slowly than the RC - but as someone who does a lot of highway riding, I'm looking forward to a larger engine that can handle sustained 80mph more comfortably than the little RC. I think my time with the RC is over. I can get a used R6 for the same price as a new RC390 through my dealer.

Great point about insurance on a 600, especially now that I've had one "total loss" under my name... I'll have to look into that.

Thanks again for the tips.

 

[stevieboy]

The R6's' is the way to go for those of us who are a little.....older. Position is not as extreme and the engine is a little more user friendly.

 

[Bagwell]

This is my opinion. It sounds like you are still learning about riding a bit. I could have gotten the wrong impression by reading your posts in this thread, but I tend to think learning more on a smaller bike than an R6 is a big benefit. An R6 has around 3 times the power of the little RC and itsnt as forgiving if you make a mistake with the throttle. IF you want a little more than the RC390, I would look into a bike between the RC and the R6. An R6 is not a learners bike. Good luck in deciding on your next bike.

 

[ToraTora]

So you made a beginners mistake on a not really all that small bike, and now want to "graduate" to a larger bike that is even more likely to exploit your errors?

This may come off as insulting, but truly it is not--it is for your own benefit. Why don't you consider getting a smaller bike and spend some time on the kart tracks learning to ride? Ultimately you'll learn faster, better, and then prepare yourself for the big tracks if that's still an objective. You may find that the kart tracks will provide all the riding you need. It's happened to a lot of track riders, and it could happen to you.

Getting a larger bike is totally ignoring the major message you've so recently been handed.

The whole size argument is a red herring. You didn't crash because you were too big for the bike--it is more likely that you crashed because your ego is too big for your experience. That's a difficult obstacle to wrangle, however if you want to survive on the bikes it's an important one to deal with early on. All great riders started out on small bikes, and many of them still train on the smaller bikes. Why? Because you learn faster and better on the smaller bikes.

Check out the kart tracks at Sonoma and Stockton. They hold races at these tracks regularly, and you'll have opportunity to speak with a bunch of riders to help you suss out what bike might work nicely for you. I would caution you though to stay away from the full size motard action--it will be seductive because of your size argument, but it wont actually help you where you probably need the most help.

The R6 is very likely to send you to the hospital, or worse. But even if it doesn't it will seriously impede your development.

 

[Metals 907]

In my humble opinion......

Learning to ride, and ride well, is paramount to survival on the street. I started my street life on a cbr 600 f4i. It was a tank that did everything but build confidence in my abilities. Sure it went fast in a straight line, wheelies at will. Just felt like a turd in the corners. I averaged about 5k. milesa summer for 2 years. Other than staining my drawers a few times in traffic situations it helped little to advance my riding skills. Rode it through the everything including a late season snow storm. ( not a Fairweather rider )

In all I would strongly suggest test riding several bikes till you find your fit. You'll get far more enjoyment out of a bike that fits you, and checks all the boxes for your wants/needs. Just try not to get too embarrassed when you encounter the guy on the little bike in the mountians/ back roads, who leaves you in the dust.

FWIW Supermoto bikes are far less forgiving in every way. If the 390 bucked you, the sumo will toss you in hail Mary fashion.

 

[philipviana]

Good points. Poor body positioning and the ensuing peg scrape (and my overreaction) were what caused my crash. I know those are two skills to work on (positioning and staying calm when a hard part drags). I've felt confident about throttle management which is why I'm less wary about stepping up to a 600. On top of that, loads of people make a 600 their first bike, and with some experience on a 300 I think I'm at an advantage. However if you're all experienced riders and you're emphasizing that a 300 really is the smart choice then maybe I should think harder about this, as much as I don't like the idea.

If my dealer lets me transfer my existing warranties ($2000 worth of theft, tire and extended factory warranty) then it's probably a no brainer for me to just replace my last bike with another rc390. If not then I may poke around and look at some other 300s. Apart from the vanity argument (tall guy small bike), my main qualm with the rc390 at this point is reliability.

ToraTora, are you on BARF? I live in Oakland, always interested in meeting riders in the area.

Bagwell, yes, you're correct that I am a new rider. I got my license and rc390 in January.

 

[simpletty]

Ultimately its your money and decision on what to buy. Experience comes with time in the seat. I have owned many bikes and my first streetbike was a honda interceptor 500. A real peice of you know what. I then graduated to a yzf600. Then began to race a ysr80 on kart tracks, my second year of racing I was rarely beaten. I then decided to go to race school and graduate to a tz125. Well that was a bit of a learning curve. Once I managed to learn the bike and get comfortable on it the thing was a blast to ride. Sure it was not a straightaway speed demon but my lap times were quicker than the guys riding the 600's. I then moved up to 600's the following year and took all I: learned with me on those smaller bikes. Late braking, trail braking, learned the slide into the corners. So I guess what I am saying is learn to go slow fast. The rc390 is a great beginner bike and set up with the correct suspension would can be a great bike to learn on on the track. A 600cc bike is not something to get on and think you will be valentino rossi's twin. If you do choose to buy a 600, first rule is to respect the bike, it can kill you if you let yourself get out of hand.

 

[micahpearlman]

Good points. Poor body positioning and the ensuing peg scrape (and my overreaction) were what caused my crash. I know those are two skills to work on (positioning and staying calm when a hard part drags). I've felt confident about throttle management which is why I'm less wary about stepping up to a 600. On top of that, loads of people make a 600 their first bike, and with some experience on a 300 I think I'm at an advantage. However if you're all experienced riders and you're emphasizing that a 300 really is the smart choice then maybe I should think harder about this, as much as I don't like the idea.

If my dealer lets me transfer my existing warranties ($2000 worth of theft, tire and extended factory warranty) then it's probably a no brainer for me to just replace my last bike with another rc390. If not then I may poke around and look at some other 300s. Apart from the vanity argument (tall guy small bike), my main qualm with the rc390 at this point is reliability.

ToraTora, are you on BARF? I live in Oakland, always interested in meeting riders in the area.

Bagwell, yes, you're correct that I am a new rider. I got my license and rc390 in January.

Glad the interwebs wasn't around to advise me when I bought my first few bikes. There were some terrible choices that went well beyond my skill level that I still fondly remember over the past 30 years. Motorcycling is a hobby and sport of passion and what you ride shouldn't be dictated by rational decision making. That being said a 600 is probably not going to be one of your best life decisions -- not terrible like getting a liter bike, buuuttttt not the best (I raced a 600 for the past few years and can generate a long plus and minus column for you if you want)... Have you considered one of the new middle weight bikes like the Yamaha FZ-07 or the Ducati Scrambler or Duke 690?

And props for going straight to the track in only your first year of riding. Best and funnest place to learn to ride. Bummer your bike caught fire. Jeez.

 

[ratlab]

the R6 is not the devils instrument of destruction,i'm sure you would do fine on one.i saw your post on barf and it will be a truly crappy commuter,but a great track bike.how much time will you spend on the track compared to all other riding?i did my first track day on the rc390 last monday and although i was not used to that kind of power delivery,i had a blast.i have never hit so many apexs with so little effort ever.i wasn't tired in 100 degree heat and ran every session of the day.if i was on a fast 600 or my liter bike i would have been done by lunch.that being said,i don't know if i can deal with hitting the limiter so often,shifting so much and not being able to hold a gear when necessary.maybe look at an R3 and talk to greg spears about making it fun.i'm building an designated track R3 for my wife right now and it might be the right compromise for you.(and me)lol- i have a FZ07 with some mods that make it trackable.freakin awesome bike.

 

[=maz=]

R6 as a learning experience...how is your insurance?

I started playing at the track on my 1400cc Naked Muscle Bike, which was some fun...purchased an old (2001)R1 track bike and had a bit more fun...purchased a curvy SV650 track bike and still had a great time...moved to racing and got the RC390.
I have more fun riding the RC390 to the limit than I do trying to hold back the R1 and I have been riding since I was 15yrs old and I'm not going to see 45 again...oh, and I weigh 110kg(240lb +).

 

[ToraTora]

Behavior, Development, and Learning

Yes I'm in SF, and I visit teh Barf from time to time, but it doesn't hold too much for me these days. Too much machismo going on over there, and not enough moto.

I've had a number of bikes. I started riding in 1974 (my dad owned the local Honda motorcycle shop). The biggest fastest bike I've had was the Aprilia RSV. It was incredibly nice, smooth, and pretty (I had the Bol d'Or). The power was incredible, and intoxicating. I've also had Ducati, Honda, and a number of bikes most folks are unfamiliar with these days. They were all nice bikes, and I had a lot of fun riding them.

About ten years ago I learned that there were some MotoGP replica bikes made in Europe, and some of them were sold in the States. I did some research and found that Aprilia and Derbi both sold Replica 50s. Yes that's right 50cc. These bikes while not race bikes were fashioned after them, and set up for the street. So I got one. Slowly I stopped riding big bikes, and these days all my bikes are these small light weight two strokes.

It's true there are certain kinds of riding that I can't do with these bikes, as they are somewhat dedicated to their purpose. But what they do well they do really well, and I've found this is the kind of riding I enjoy the most. And while they really aren't set up for touring I have done some camping touring on them, and that was actually fun too.

Now these bikes aren't for everyone, and I'm not suggesting that everyone go and get one. I will say though it's not a bad idea to at least take a look at them. I usually organize a monthly ride for these bikes, and this month I hosted the first GPR Camp in Marin very close to Muir Woods. It was a multi day camp out for these Grand Prix Replica bikes. While it was a small group everyone that went had a fantastic time. There probably isn't a better kind of bike to ride through these hills. It's like these bikes were made for this kind of riding.

A little over three years ago I was hit by a Honda driver on my way to the Friday Night ride. Even though I had a small bike I didn't have any problems keeping up with the liter bikes on that ride--as long as it wasn't on the freeway in which case well I was dropped like a sack of potatoes. This incident hurt me quite badly and I will probably never fully recover. My riding has suffered significantly, and I'll probable never be the rider I use to be before the crash. I also really don't enjoy riding around cars anymore. Sure I still do it, but the majority of the fun has been taken away.

Now I'm transitioning more towards circuit riding. I had done some previous to the crash, but not with the same level of interest which I have these days. I built up a dedicated track bike that is nearly finished--or at least done enough to start riding regularly at the track. I'm hoping to have it ready very soon. The white bike is my friend's bike.

But there are two bikes that I am seriously contemplating. One is a true GP bike with a Derbi engine. I like this a lot because it's exactly what I want, with an engine for which I am very familiar and competent. I can rebuild the Derbi engine from the ground up, and have around 10 years of tuning experience with it.

The other bike is purely for training. A friend of mine has a son enrolled in Jorge Lorenzo's (yes the moto GP racer) father's GP school. My friend regularly goes out to Stockton and teaches people the lessons that his son is learning at Lorenzo's school. My friend will probably be opening up a school here in the States before too long. Mostly what they work on are drills, such as figure 8s. For these exercises you are riding very slow, and you crash a lot. Like you mostly crash. So you don't really want to do the drills on a nice bike. The perfect bike for these exercises turns out to be a KX65 (you want a gear box), with motard wheels. You are then very low to the ground, so when you crash it pretty much doesn't hurt. lolz. Think of it as a pocket bike for adults.

The reason I'm telling you all of this is to give you some perspective. I've got over 40 years of riding under my belt, and while it may have taken me a while to learn that to get good you have to ride small, I did at some point learn the lesson. Oh and it doesn't hurt that I'm a biologist that has studied behavior, development, and learning.

In my opinion based on many years of watching people if you've only been riding since January then the RC390 is way too much bike on which to learn how to become a good rider. Yes it can be done, but at a significant cost. You will learn much slower, and you wont learn as well. Like I stated previously all the great riders started on small bikes. Many of the GP riders started on pocket bikes. If you look you can find YouTube videos of them racing the pocket bikes. There are really good reasons for them starting out on the pocket bikes, and working their way through a whole bunch of bikes just to get to the 125GP bikes. You learn faster and better on the smaller bikes.

[video=youtube;tcgwiKxO4ok]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcgwiKxO4ok[/video]

[video=youtube;_iByjBSljfM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iByjBSljfM[/video]​

The crapola of people starting out on an R6 is one of the machismo garbage tenants of teh Barf that seriously turns me off. Their arguments are nothing but rationalizations, and usually very poorly thought out rationalizations. They can't point to white papers, they can't reference a single moto gp racer, all they can do is talk about a guy they know who know's a guy, or they might say "well I did alright!" They never talk about what they don't know, and why it took them so long to get to where they are as a rider. Like I said machismo garbage.

The thing to do is suss out your objectives, and then develop a plan to meet those objectives. If you really want to become a good rider the fastest, and best way to do it is on a small bike--and by small I mean like around 50cc. There are no legitimate arguments that put up against these facts. I've seen plenty of them, and there's nothing that can stand up to what you can learn, and how fast you can learn it on the smaller bikes. You stand only two inches taller than I do--that's not a significant amount. I know even taller folks that successfully ride these little bikes. And like I mentioned above, most of the learning is done at really slow speeds--so you don't need a lot of horse power to pull you around even if you are 300+lbs (not saying that you are, just saying). In the case of motorcycles the saying of getting the right tool for the job holds a lot of weight, and for learning the right tool just happens to be a small bike.