Hekimpd
New Member
I'm interested as well. If I'm unable to obtain a gen1 shock, how much would it cost for one of your rebuilds? Thanks!
Andy
Member
Thanks 
Trimapa
New Member
My buddy brought his '02 Yam R6 stock shock I bought from him yesterday . Due to storage over the last 15 years there are some scratches on the spring . For the rest it is as good as new . He recalls having driven the 25 miles from the showroom to home and fitted the Ohlins shock the same afternoon .
Waiting for Matt to send me a quote for the Race Tech Spring , Pre load adjuster and bushings / shims
Waiting for Matt to send me a quote for the Race Tech Spring , Pre load adjuster and bushings / shims
Attachments
reenmachine
Member
The parts for conversion over for a 390 are as follows:
Spring: $115
Spring adapter collar: $3
Threaded Preload: $70
12 to 10mm bushings: $12
Aluminum bottom bushing shims: $8
For others who might not have their own core or not doing the work themselves, the additional parts/costs are:
99 R6 Core: $50
Labor: $60
If someone instead want a FULL rebuild of the shock, it requires more labor and more parts, these are:
Shock Oil: $30
Shock Seal Head Assembly: $50
Shock Shaft Bushing: $10
Bottom-Out Bumper: $22
Reservoir Bladder: $20
Reservoir Bladder Cap: $22
Labor for total rebuild, including Nitrogen Charge: $125
Shipping: Depends on location, but GENERALLY for US domestic folks it will run around $15.
dbworld4k
New Member
So $258 + shipping for all the parts incl non-rebuilt core if one was to DIY the conversion?
Correct. That's the math of 115 (spring) + 3 (spring collar adapter) + 70 (threaded preload adapter) + 12 (12 to 10mm bushings) + 8 (aluminum bushing spacer shims) + 50 (core). Then + shipping, which location determines the shipping cost... Which is probably $15, so total would be $273, delivered. I think I have one shock in stock left that would not require a rebuild. Finding QUALITY shocks that look to be in good shape and have Bottom Out Bumpers intact and in good shape has been getting harder. Folks are finding out about the option and snatching them up. Plus I've bought (and sold) almost all of the shocks my wrecking yard suppliers had. I've got some queries out for another order, but so far word back has been that any they have had in stock either I've already purchased or what they have remaining are not in good enough shape to meet my "doesn't require a full rebuild" quality bar.
For the partial build DIY folks, I will say this also. Removing the spring SAFELY, without the proper tools, is tricky. The "ratchet straps" method is probably the best method I've seen. It's NOT without risk, and there may indeed be a better option/method, but that's what my research has found. Here at the shop I have a spring compressor. I'd used my shop press (hadn't built my compressor for the RC390 shock yet) and had... an incident... resulting in my now sporting a permanent scar on my palm to remind me to use the right tool for the job.
It's not my first scar received from trying to "just make do" in the shop. Springs pack a LOT of energy in a very small space. Plus, having me do the labor allows me to further inspect the core once the stock spring has been removed. It's the call of the person doing the job tho. I'm just making that choice clear. If someone wants to go DIY and just have me source the parts, I'll do that too. Just know if you do have an accident, and I find out, I'm going to have a "I warned ya!" at the ready. Plus, if your SO discovers you could have paid me to do it, and you didn't, and they ask me about it... yer the one who's going to have to live with their bringing it up every time they see the scar, or they think you're about to do something risky, or that they feel is dangerous, forever. LOL
Hekimpd
New Member
Meh, just adds a little bounce in your step. ;-P
Matt is right about the energy in springs - removing/installing springs does entail some risk. I was able to remove the R6 yellow spring and install the RaceTech spring following the example of this very clear YouTube tutorial (which uses a later-generation R6 shock). It works, but you need to use care and pay attention.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdHDbTZQvfs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdHDbTZQvfs
Trimapa
New Member
You can get a decent enough set of spring compressors for about 50 USD , you don't want to regret not having invested that in your well being or that of any bystander .
I have not had as good of luck with spring compressors for pulling springs off a motorcycle shock. The springs are just too small and the distance between the coils is too small. I also don't think I'd trust MY fingers (and eyes) with one of the cheap spring compressors. The ratchet strap method works. It's not the easiest of methods, and there is even still SOME risk, but it's possible to get the spring off that way. Getting the rest of the shock apart to add the RaceTech parts requires a bit more tools (particularly to get one of the sleeves off, I usually just cut them off) which is a press fit and requires a little finesse to remove. Once that part is off tho, the rest of the process is fairly simple.
I built my spring compression tool (Hey, I'm a machinist, I build most everything I can) to pull shocks apart / remove the spring.
With my setup, I can remove springs with little to no drama, quickly, easily, and professionally. Once the spring is off, you can finally test the shock out and inspect it to see if it's a "just run it" candidate, or would require a full rebuild. I would say that these days if I'm lucky about a third of the shocks I buy end up being a candidate for not needing a full rebuild. The other two thirds are either missing the Bottom out Bushing, have an oil leak, or the oil and nitrogen charge is completely gone at which point I might disassemble them to see if there are any usuable parts remaining... or I just toss the whole thing in my metal recycle bin.
Of the four shocks here, ones a "run it" quality, two look like they will be rebuildable, and the last is total junk and destined for recycle.
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LOL, ask a simple question instead next time please!
Evaluating the shock is an experience thing, but the executive summary is you first off want to inspect the Bottom Out Bumper (aka BOB). If the BOB is cracked, dry, broken, missing pieces, etc then most likely you are looking at a high miles shock and it'll need rebuild for sure. Next up, inspect the shaft. Any indication of problems with the chrome plating, scratches, oil residue/gunk, bent, etc again, probably going to need a rebuild or it's junk. Inspect the bushing the shaft rides in, look for indication of oil leaks or excessive wear. Inspect the spring. If the paint on the spring had been damaged from heat, vs screwdrivers or rocks. Then set the rebound damping to max. Push the shock in. It should barely move out very very slowly. As it's doing this, adjust the rebound to open, it should speed up with linear progression as you adjust it. Then do the same with testing compression. Inspect again for oil. If the shock is out of nitrogen or low on oil, when pushing the cylinder in you may hear the oil gurgle through the ports on some shocks. Being low on either means rebuild also. Some shocks might have done air in the oil from how the shock had been positioned prior to testing, but that makes more of a rushing than gurgle sound. I don't know if I fully have the vocabulary to describe the deference tho. It's one of those "I know it when I hear it" sort of things and is easier to learn after listening to multiple shocks in various states of disrepair to really "get" I fear.
It's somewhat difficult to fully try and articulate everything I check. I'm more trying to go through my checklist in my head now, but MIGHT be missing something I'm looking for and only flag if I see something wrong or something looks or feels off/bad.
Sometimes a shock can LOOK cosmetically like crud because it's coated in road grime, but be in great shape. Other times it might look pristine but that's because it got cleaned up but in fact is missing the BOB, has scratches on the shaft, tell tale signs of excessive heat, and the insides look like black sludge... And you might not be able to tell until you get the spring off and try testing it then with compression and rebound tests by hand.
hydroz1
New Member
basically a hydraulic press with a custom hole for the r6 shock.
Nice. I will have to do something like this if I lose/gain weight and have to change my spring.
V
It's a LITTLE more than just that, but basically, yeah. Holding the shock on the bottom is also a bit of an affair. The R6 does have a flat, unlike the stock shock, but it can still tip/cock to the side as you are compressing the spring... Sending EVERYTHING flying when it goes SPROING!!! What's possibly difficult to see is a piece of schedule 40 pipe which has also been machined to hold the bottom of the shock against the press. It's not perfect, and I'll be remaking that specific piece of the assembly in metal... eventually. Tapping the bottom plate holes to also be perfectly at 90° also is greatly aided by having machine tools... But it's not required. Just as making the "custom hole" to be EXACTLY centered along the X and Y dimension, and EXACTLY just 0.010" over the OD size of the retainer plate, which is also exactly on center on the X axis 4" from the center... Are ALL those dimensions and locations perfectly necessary... Maybe not... But I like being able to count to 21 without the need of further assistance and springs have FAR too much energy to casually screw around.
Even when you do everything right, they can STILL bite ya. As happened to me with the stock shock getting the spring off to take measurements and the rounded end got free and everything suddenly wasn't in front of me anymore, my hand hurt, was covered in something warm, wet, and dripping. I was being impatient, and made a poor setup/decision... and I'll get to look at that scar the rest of my life. It COULD have gone MUCH worse. I knew better. I know better. I'll not be repeating that little screwup again, nor casually advising others either.
I think without the correct setup using a Hydraulic Jack is even riskier than the ratchet straps, because you can build a LOT more energy, far easier, without potentially realizing how much is stored in the spring. At least with the straps you feel Every Newton as you build up the pressure. It can STILL bite you... But I think you may at least get a tiny bit more warning. Not much more. But MAYBE enough to realize it's time to move before everything lets go.
With the press, I had no warning at all. Everything seemed to be going fine (and I'm quite experienced with that press, and shocks) and then, it wasn't. Doh!
Oh well... Pain is temporary, glory is forever. Bones heal, and chicks dig scars.
reenmachine
Member
Man, every coilover I've installed in the car world made this so easy. Loosen the threaded preload collar all the way and the spring was all the way unloaded. Pop the spring perch off and you're done. Maybe there's just not enough room to do it on a moto shock...
There is. It's just cheaper not to. Threaded adjusters are more expensive to manufacture than the stepped adjusters. Non-rebuildable shocks are cheaper to manufacture than rebuildables. It's all about the bean counters squeezing as much as they can out of production to drive consumer costs down as low as possible.
reenmachine
Member
Yeah I know but would it break the bank to have the lowest step fully unload the spring if the shock is at its free length? They could toss us a bone once in a while.
They did. There were certainly some spots they screwed us, which are well inside of the typical shortcuts and cost us more to modify after the have. That's where the power parts catalog comes in.
LOL
hydroz1
New Member
How about a semi-sleeve to cover/assist in keeping the coil in place while it's being compressed? Just looking at the setup and reading your post I can see how any misalignment while compressing the shock can lead to what happened to you, Matt. If all we're working on are R6 shocks, we can build a specific sleeve for this particular setup. Maybe even have it hang from the top of the press with all-thread to be able to adjust the height, maybe?
Anyway, just throwing ideas out there.
This post of yours is further evidence of why I think you care so much about the people riding these bikes. Thanks Matt. You really do rock.
V
