Treachery
Moderator
*gasp* 
Fasteddy
Member
That's my dealer also!
Ryanthegreat1
New Member
Ouch, I wonder what VINs this applies to. My cams looked great at 400 miles. Might need to tear it down and look again.
This would probably explain the absurd amount of metal in the oil I found with my oil change... To the dealer I go!
rick
New Member
Pics!!! ...of the exhaust cam. Sorry they're a little big. Also, the dealer was awful.
rick
New Member
rick
New Member
That's good to have a confirmation!
My closest KTM dealer, SBM, was awful yesterday but we'll see.
The mechanic, Dan, at my favorite local shop, Precision, said that is was an obvious metallurgical issue with the cam and that they'd called ahead to SBM to tell them about their diagnosis and that I was gonna be on my way. When I got to SBM the guy at the service counter, Jason, was really nice but, as I was talking to him, I heard from the shop the same voice from on the phone on Tuesday immediately start in on why it wouldn't be covered under warranty (I never caught his name).
So, all three us go out to my truck so, that he can see the cam but, every other sentence out of his mouth is, "they won't cover it" and my favorite, "I've never in my entire career seen a manufacturer cover warranty repairs on a bike that's been owner maintained." I mentioned that that's flat out against the law by the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act and he dismissively says, "Maybe for cars." I give him my best you're-wrong-but-I'm-not-gonna-argue-about-it face and hand him the exhaust cam.
He comments that it obviously wasn't oil starved and that it might be a heat treatment or surface finish issue, this is between more, "they won't cover it" statements, he says the buckets and shims look good too so, the problem initiated by the cam failure.
We walk in, with more "they won't cover it"'s, and Jason does the paperwork with me. The "won't cover it" guy says that all they can do is call KTM and see what happens.
I'm supposed to hear back from SBM next week.
FWIW, Sport Rider Magazine has an article on their website stating that he is flat out wrong about the law. If he says something about warranties don't cover owner performed maintenance next time I'm gonna ask him to put that into writing.
rick
New Member
FWIW, my screen had more metal in it than I would have liked at break-in but, the internet had convinced me that it was pretty normal for this bike so, I was forcing myself to let it go until the next service. If it cleaned up then no worries, if not...
Doesn't matter now though - it'll probably be horrible next oil change.
Fasteddy
Member
WOW, FWIW...
I would have just stopped "won't cover it" guy and gone to owner of shop / other dealer / KTM !
I would still contact KTM / rep about it and attitude and also shop owner!!!
rick
New Member
It may come to that - I'll give 'em a chance to prove that it wasn't just one lunatic before I start being in d*ck about anything.
RobbiRob76
New Member
Rick,
I owned a Honda Dealership for ten years... Tell the owner! He would want to know, he may have already lost you as a customer. If you don't say anything he will certainly lose others. Dealers work hard to keep business in house and take care of customers by giving customer service over internet pricing. A lose cannon, can cost him thousands of dollars and eventually his ability to be there for service customers such as you! While he/she is doing all they can to build a strong client base, this guy who has no dog in the fight goes off over what little authority he has. TELL THE OWNER!!!!!
My 2 cents. Robbi
I owned a Honda Dealership for ten years... Tell the owner! He would want to know, he may have already lost you as a customer. If you don't say anything he will certainly lose others. Dealers work hard to keep business in house and take care of customers by giving customer service over internet pricing. A lose cannon, can cost him thousands of dollars and eventually his ability to be there for service customers such as you! While he/she is doing all they can to build a strong client base, this guy who has no dog in the fight goes off over what little authority he has. TELL THE OWNER!!!!!
My 2 cents. Robbi
Chris The Welder
New Member
This is why I've been collecting tools since the first time this happened to me 35 years or so ago. I've owned seven bikes bought new, and many others bought used. Some of them were raced for several seasons. Not one of them ever went to a shop for anything. Nothing like this ever happened though. KTM, and their dealers should be doing everything they can to satisfy you here in my opinion. Good luck.
rick
New Member
Right? Own a motorcycle long enough and eventually some dealer will teach you the hard way that, if you want it done right, it's better to learn how to do it yourself.
At least for now, I'll give them the few days they asked for before I start exploding on anyone. That particular mechanic and the service write did get to hear me chatting with another customer inline about how they were already making excuses about how they wouldn't fix it before they even saw it FWIW. I have been wishing I had recorded the mechanic (even just on audio) going off about never seeing a warranty covered without dealer service in his entire career. I'm curious how they'll react if I ask them to put that into writing or on camera if they say anything like that next week.
At least for now, I'll give them the few days they asked for before I start exploding on anyone. That particular mechanic and the service write did get to hear me chatting with another customer inline about how they were already making excuses about how they wouldn't fix it before they even saw it FWIW. I have been wishing I had recorded the mechanic (even just on audio) going off about never seeing a warranty covered without dealer service in his entire career. I'm curious how they'll react if I ask them to put that into writing or on camera if they say anything like that next week.
Treachery
Moderator
Two words to apply if/when you determine that the dealer isn't going to go to bat with you with KTM.
Attorney General.
Most, if not all states have a division of the AG's office to deal with consumer complaints. It's common for the mere phone call of inquiry from that office to jerk the offending business into line.
Good luck!
Attorney General.
Most, if not all states have a division of the AG's office to deal with consumer complaints. It's common for the mere phone call of inquiry from that office to jerk the offending business into line.
Good luck!
rick
New Member
I was just reading the warranty on KTM's website. It's for 2016 but, I can't find a copy of the 2015 version online. Probably same-same.
I though these parts were a little odd in general though:
It also mentions that on owner-performed maintenance that KTM may require, "a statement that the owner performed the service work including receipts for the replacement parts/ gaskets/ filters/ fluids etc. that were used to complete the service."
I though these parts were a little odd in general though:
Interesting how little is covered. Makes me think of the plastic gas tank on my Ducati melting from the gas in it.
I think I'd be pretty annoyed if I had a piston failure in the first 12,000 miles or 1 year.
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Assuming you can find a dealer that doesn't suck you would find that KTM NA is actually very lenient and understanding with warranty related issues. The piece of paper they send with the bikes is a legal document to protect their ass if they have to deny the claim. Back when I worked at the KTM dealer here I was in constant contact with the warranty dept and found they are very easy and understanding of things that "should not happen" which is how most of the claims went through. KTM's main goal is customer satisfaction the same cannot be said for all of the dealers that think warranty claims loose money.
fs1ephil
New Member
The only other story ive read where an rc's cam shaft gave way was when two indian chaps went on a tour.
During there run one of the two rc's broke down due to cam shaft failure when checked both bikes had used oil
the other rc was low on oil but luckily hadnt failed. The wear on that cam lobe wouldnt wear flat if it had been getting oil.
My bike although run in properly and when running does not show any signs of smoke from the exhaust still had to be topped
up slightly between the first and second service. The lobe has worn conciderably surely the engine rattled and possibly once the lobe
wore down enough did the shim jump out and break the cam?
During there run one of the two rc's broke down due to cam shaft failure when checked both bikes had used oil
the other rc was low on oil but luckily hadnt failed. The wear on that cam lobe wouldnt wear flat if it had been getting oil.
My bike although run in properly and when running does not show any signs of smoke from the exhaust still had to be topped
up slightly between the first and second service. The lobe has worn conciderably surely the engine rattled and possibly once the lobe
wore down enough did the shim jump out and break the cam?
rick
New Member
So, they are going to repair it under warranty!
There was a whole long story from the dealer about how KTM was NOT going to cover it, how KTM was mad that a non-dealer had touched it, how much they had to fight for me, etc. but that KTM was going to allow them to replace the exhaust cam, change the oil and authorized a clutch cover gasket so, that they could inspect for any cam pieces that may have fallen down there.
They're story about KTM fighting about coverage sounded very strange to me though. By my thinking, KTM is really truly awful, KTM has some serious trust issues with this dealer or this dealer is the awful one and built those whole narrative so, that I'd think better of them or so that their original pessimism wouldn't seem as untrue. I'm not sure what to think but, at least it's getting fixed and if I'm really lucky the cam pieces didn't do any additional damage that we haven't seen yet and then I'll get to have this fight all over again.
fs1ephil, all the shims were in place. Buckets looked surprisingly clean.
There was a whole long story from the dealer about how KTM was NOT going to cover it, how KTM was mad that a non-dealer had touched it, how much they had to fight for me, etc. but that KTM was going to allow them to replace the exhaust cam, change the oil and authorized a clutch cover gasket so, that they could inspect for any cam pieces that may have fallen down there.
They're story about KTM fighting about coverage sounded very strange to me though. By my thinking, KTM is really truly awful, KTM has some serious trust issues with this dealer or this dealer is the awful one and built those whole narrative so, that I'd think better of them or so that their original pessimism wouldn't seem as untrue. I'm not sure what to think but, at least it's getting fixed and if I'm really lucky the cam pieces didn't do any additional damage that we haven't seen yet and then I'll get to have this fight all over again.
fs1ephil, all the shims were in place. Buckets looked surprisingly clean.
Great news!!! I have heard dealers and techs say this before, and I want to stop them in their tracks and tell them that it isnt true, but sometimes you just wont get anyplace with that discussion... I have a hard time letting anyone else work on my equipment. Good luck with it all and I am glad you are getting some resolution.
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